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Forum: General Discussion

Tema: Serato finally adds Stems - Page: 1
Here is demo of Serato 3.0 where they have finally added stems.






So love Virtual DJ, Paving the path, and always, years ahead of all the competition !




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rubs chin.. wondering what this feature will cost, if one would like to use stems with Serato?

(new and currently not listed on Serato's site)


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Also wonders, once Serato has Stems, whether future Serato paired hardware may have more knobs for stems control. That could possibly be something to look forward too on future controllers.
 
Mensajes Tue 04 Oct 22 @ 8:11 am
of the so-called 'comparison' video I've seen... it's hard to compare something that's a beta vs something established when that beta has fewer features, fewer channels, and limited customization...

and I can't wait to hear all the complaints about stability on top of the ones they already have
 
Mensajes Tue 04 Oct 22 @ 8:28 am
And all the Denon fan boys asking when it'll get added to Engine OS :)

Doubt I'll live long enough to see that.
 
Mensajes Tue 04 Oct 22 @ 8:30 am
Having seen a few of the videos that have been posted i will admit the algo is slightly better at the separation then in VDJ. Of course i am ignoring all the SDJ fanboy posts im seeing on social media as its just boring now. Especially laughing at that they still cannot use it via the EQ knobs etc.

A good vid to watch is Cleveland Terry's - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJldCy3SGLA
As he stays more impartial then all the other (likely scripted) videos that have been put out there.

So the questions is to the devs, do we expect to have any tweaks or updates to be made to Stems in VDJ?
In respect to getting a slightly cleaner sound?
 
Mensajes Tue 04 Oct 22 @ 10:17 am
I watched his video and his comparison I had to take with a little skepticism. as I mentioned above - the comparison hardly holds up when it just doesn't have what VirtualDJ has. and as for what he termed 'richer sound'... that could just have been how he has the sound setup on his own audio.

as for what we might be getting - they rarely say what we're getting in the future and add improvements as asked for and as they're available.
 
Mensajes Tue 04 Oct 22 @ 10:26 am
I completely agree you have to take the video with a pinch of salt, as im sure many of these YT are getting a kick back from Serato just to post any video about their products. And we have read the sound debate of these DJ applications and know the true result. Unfortunately to the uneducated they think more bass/treble (loudness) = better sound.

Also I feel this is the real part of VDJ game that is slightly a let down. I believe VDJ just doesnt have the clever marketing that Serato has or the association of major respected DJs in getting the product the recognition it deserves.

But at the same time we should also keep on top of staying (IMHO) number one in the game.
So whether we are talking about newer features or making improvements to those game changing features VDJ always seems to puts out first, we need to stay in front.
 
Mensajes Tue 04 Oct 22 @ 11:15 am
Lots of people saying things like it's "night and day" (etc) in comparison to VDJ, but IMO they're being more enthusiastic because it's Serato, rather than there being that much difference.

From what I've heard so far (using it myself too) it may well sound "different" as they've not used the same code, but I don't think it's "better". Certainly not night and day.

I wonder if they'd be able to pick out the "better" audio in a blind test.
 
Mensajes Tue 04 Oct 22 @ 4:51 pm
Testing both myself on the same equipment with the same track, and I use nothing but VDJ for my gigs I can say there is a clear difference in sound. There always has been, SDJ has to have some underlying Compressor or something.

As for the stems, the separation is better sounding with SDJ 🤷🏾‍♂️

The vocals and the drums are where I noticed it the most!!

Flame me if you want but remember I am a VDJ user since back at like version 4 and have never used anything else, tried others but always used VDJ.

Their separation engine is better sounding according to my ears……..

Also VDJ does need to create a better pad page with the effects and make them post fader when used with stems 🤙🏾
 
Mensajes Tue 04 Oct 22 @ 5:05 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT wrote :
Testing both myself on the same equipment with the same track, and I use nothing but VDJ for my gigs I can say there is a clear difference in sound. There always has been, SDJ has to have some underlying Compressor or something.

As for the stems, the separation is better sounding with SDJ 🤷🏾‍♂️

The vocals and the drums are where I noticed it the most!!

Flame me if you want but remember I am a VDJ user since back at like version 4 and have never used anything else, tried others but always used VDJ.

Their separation engine is better sounding according to my ears……..

Also VDJ does need to create a better pad page with the effects and make them post fader when used with stems 🤙🏾


Have to agree with you here. Hence my comment in regards to if there any improvements to the stems that can be made in VDJ.

I downloaded the Beta of SDJ and its clear to hear the difference. Will it make me switch over to SDJ... Not a chance.

Reason being, I challenge any SDJ users to connect to my XDJ-RX2 and use it via HID. Simply put you cant as its not supported and is part of the reason why i chose VDJ many years ago.

In fact i remember the envious eyes i used to get from SDJ users years back when i could HID straight into CDJs at the club without the need for silly SL1/2/3 boxes etc.

So for me VDJ is still the one, but we should not relax in terms of where the competition is or going.
 
Mensajes Tue 04 Oct 22 @ 6:03 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT wrote :
Testing both myself on the same equipment with the same track, and I use nothing but VDJ for my gigs I can say there is a clear difference in sound. There always has been, SDJ has to have some underlying Compressor or something.

As for the stems, the separation is better sounding with SDJ 🤷🏾‍♂️

The vocals and the drums are where I noticed it the most!!

Flame me if you want but remember I am a VDJ user since back at like version 4 and have never used anything else, tried others but always used VDJ.

Their separation engine is better sounding according to my ears……..

Also VDJ does need to create a better pad page with the effects and make them post fader when used with stems 🤙🏾


+1 for the pad page effects of Serato Stems. That's definitely a feature which would be great to have in VDJ. I also tested the SDJ and VDJ side by side and I would agree that the Serato algorithm is a bit better. I don't think that this is a surprise, seeing how much more time they had to implement their algorithm. They probably also used stems form VDJ to train their model.
 
Mensajes Tue 04 Oct 22 @ 8:07 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT wrote :
As for the stems, the separation is better sounding with SDJ 🤷🏾‍♂️

The vocals and the drums are where I noticed it the most!!

I have also tried the SDJ 3.0, and it is hard to compare apples to oranges, since SDJ, it seems, has divided the audio spectrum into 4 stems compared with VDJ 5 stems.

listening to the same track on loop, I agree that the SDJ drum stem is preferred. Other stems are hard to determine .. for what is the equivalent of SDJ Melody? (SDJ Melody, seems not to be the same as VDJ Instu)

Again making a 1 to 1, comparison difficult.

Switching from the most most versatile and amazing Virtual DJ, would never be a thought.




_________
Have always wondered why there is such a difference in system resource use between the 2 softwares.
And do not know if SDJ using much more system resources is a positive (able to create, different audio with more cpu, gpu processing and ram), or a negative (since it is easy to poorly code software to hog resources).


here is comparison snapshot of SDJ 3.0.0.478 with VDJ 7151, both running the same 32 beat loop of the same track. (also similar when comparing the SDJ non beta, there is always a big difference with resources used)




I would love if VDJ wanted to use more resources for any additional improvements.

Current settings:
mathEngine GPU
mathEnginePriorty Automatic
skinFPS 30
pitchQuality 4
scratchFilterQuality 30
experimentalBeatAnalyzer Yes
 
Mensajes Wed 05 Oct 22 @ 12:17 am
IIDEEJAYII wrote :
...


For my first test, I couldn't tell too much of a difference until I remembered to close breakawayDJ. Thats when I noticed that seratos all around audio sound was very close to what it sounded like when I had breakawayDJ active with VDJ. I think it's how serato handles audio that takes up those resources. VDJ and BreakawayDJ running together with both decks playing still don't pull that much resources.
I also think the 5 stems affect VDJ stems. Because the vocal stem sounds better when you have hihat stem along with it, obvious drawback hihat and snare being heard but in the right mix it's barely noticeable. kick stem sounds better with hihat stem for drums. Of course.
The biggest difference is the waveform that where I find sdj stems better.


Mod you're replying to the person directly above you, you don't need to quote the full post.
 
Mensajes Wed 05 Oct 22 @ 3:59 am
I do like their echo out feature.
 
Mensajes Wed 05 Oct 22 @ 1:21 pm
djjohnnyrox wrote :
I do like their echo out feature.


We have been able to do that for quite some time now.
 
Mensajes Wed 05 Oct 22 @ 1:50 pm
user22874213 wrote :

+1 for the pad page effects of Serato Stems. That's definitely a feature which would be great to have in VDJ.

What are you missing in the VDJ stems fx implementation?
Just that it's the same as the 4 pre-defined ones in Serato?

In VDJ the Stems FX are done a bit differently
- but the idea is the same, except that it's less pre-defined, so you can stil lchange the fx's in the regular way:
 
Mensajes Wed 05 Oct 22 @ 1:59 pm
So aside from Serato crashing with memory handling issues in the v3 beta, I also agree that it sounds much cleaner than VDJ.
I'm hoping that Atomix update the separation AI model , as other models available (outside of DJ software) produce much cleaner separation.

It would also be a huge improvement if the stem specific effects worked post fader.
 
Mensajes Wed 05 Oct 22 @ 2:41 pm
Tear Em 'UpPRO InfinitySenior ModeratorMember since 2006
Please allow me to add to the lexicon of this erudite and edifying conversation with the most succinct and poignant respond I can must for this momentous occasion.

So?
 
Mensajes Wed 05 Oct 22 @ 3:33 pm
i'll see your 'So?' and raise you a

meh.
 
Mensajes Wed 05 Oct 22 @ 3:37 pm
I'm getting some weird stuff going on with the stems FX. For example I solo the vocals, which play back in the usual fashion........but when I enable an effect, some of the other stems bleed back in.

Ergo, I can't apply an effect just to the vocal, as doing so brings other parts back in.

??
 
Mensajes Wed 05 Oct 22 @ 4:52 pm
the SOUND INSURGENT wrote :
djjohnnyrox wrote :
I do like their echo out feature.


We have been able to do that for quite some time now.


I like the button placement on the pads below each stem
 
Mensajes Wed 05 Oct 22 @ 6:34 pm
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